For Civil Service College’s first In Conversation of 2025, our Director of International Partnerships, Jonathan Pearse, met with former Head of the Government Finance Function and Chief Financial Officer at the Ministry of Justice, Mike Driver. Their wide-ranging discussion touched on how achieving value for money in government works in practice and the various frameworks and mechanisms that regulate this.

For the full discussion, see the link to our YouTube channel at the bottom of the page.

Introduction

Mike Driver's career began in 1979 at the Department of Health and Social Security, where he spent his first six years delivering services to customers. He then moved into regional management and fulfilled various policy and finance roles. He is a qualified accountant and has held several financial director roles, both corporate and operational. Mike was promoted to Chief Financial Officer at the Department for Work and Pensions in 2012 and later appointed Chief Financial Officer at the Ministry of Justice in 2016. He also served as the head of the Government Finance Function and had a stint as the interim permanent secretary at the Ministry of Justice.

On Value for Money

Mike began by explaining that the National Audit Office defines value for money in a government context as the optimal use of resources to achieve intended outcomes. The measurement is therefore not only financial, but whether or not significant political outputs or specific outcomes are achieved e.g. reducing the rate of re-offending by the Ministry of Justice.

Mike said that this is best achieved through cross-departmental collaboration, in order to reduce waste and improve efficiency. The challenge is to ensure proper connection with and between departmental systems to enhance value for money and efficiency.

Mike discussed the various frameworks that support value for money, including managing public money, consolidated budget guidance, government planning and performance framework, and the public value framework. These frameworks aid in driving value for money across government departments. Mike stressed the importance of focusing on the sustainability of public finances, especially in areas with increasing costs like health, social care, pensions, and welfare payments. He mentioned the need for the introduction of a new framework to invest in preventative measures.

On the Spending Review

Mike then outlined the spending review process, led by the Treasury, where departments submit their expenditure plans and priorities. Mike emphasised the importance of focusing on efficiency, effectiveness, and the use of new technologies to achieve better outcomes.

Spending reviews are led and managed by the Treasury. The Chief Secretary writes to Secretaries of State, setting out the broad arrangements, priorities, and expectations for the spending review process. Departments are then invited to make their submissions to the Chief Secretary, explaining their expenditure plans and what they expect to achieve with the allocated funds. The focus is on efficiency, effectiveness, and the use of new technology.

Mike also highlighted the importance of zero-based reviews in certain areas to ensure that departments do not simply request more funds based on previous expenditures but instead review their activities to drive efficiency and effectiveness. Mike mentioned the value of peer reviews in the system, where colleagues from one department review the work of another to ensure the spending priorities and evidence are sound. This approach has demonstrated real value in past spending reviews.

On Oversight and Accountability

Mike explained the role of Parliament in voting on departmental budgets and the Treasury's responsibility for allocating funds. He highlighted the importance of accountability and the involvement of the National Audit Office in conducting value for money studies.

Parliament votes on departmental budgets, and departments can only spend money on intended outcomes as specified within the ambit of the vote. Annual reports and accounts are submitted to Parliament, which holds hearings to ensure accountability. The National Audit Office conducts value for money studies and reports publicly on whether major programmes and activities are delivering value for money. These reports are often subject to scrutiny by the Public Accounts Committee.

The Treasury allocates funds to departments based on budgeting processes and spending reviews. The Treasury ensures that funds are used effectively and in line with government priorities. Mike then talked about the creation of the new Office for Value for Money (OVfM), led by David Goldstone, and its role in conducting thematic value for money reviews. Mike emphasised the importance of avoiding duplication and ensuring different aspects of expenditure are reviewed and improved.

While OVfM was created before we’d heard of DOGE in the United States, it clearly has very different ambitions. OVfM was created to conduct thematic value for money reviews, taking advantage of the new two-year spending review cycle. Mike emphasised the need to avoid duplication by ensuring that different aspects of expenditure are reviewed and improved. OVfM aims to focus on various areas to drive efficiency and avoid arbitrary cuts.

Mike explained the three lines of defence model: regular monitoring by line managers, additional assurance by organisations like the Treasury and Cabinet Office, and external audits by the National Audit Office. This model ensures comprehensive value for money assessments.

Mike said that the purpose of the famous fiscal rules is ensuring sustainable public finances and building confidence among investors and taxpayers. He discussed the flexibility of these rules and their importance in maintaining financial stability. The Fiscal rules are set by the government to ensure sustainable public finances and build confidence among investors and taxpayers. They help maintain financial stability and public trust. The current fiscal rules include a stability rule to avoid spending more than earned over a longer period, a net debt rule to reduce debt as a share of the economy by 2030, and a rule against borrowing for general expenditure. These rules are similar to the principles set by previous governments.

While fiscal rules are set by the government of the day, they can be adjusted based on economic conditions and priorities. The rules are designed to be flexible to accommodate changing circumstances while maintaining financial stability.

Mike then discussed the role of the Government Finance Function in professionalising financial roles within the Civil Service. Mike highlighted the importance of having qualified finance professionals and the function's objectives in driving value and improving decision-making. The GFF aims to professionalise finance roles within the civil service. This includes ensuring that finance directors and CFOs are qualified accountants, which was not always the case in the past.

The GFF’s objectives include getting the basics right, focusing on people, diversity, and capability, introducing a single operating model, increasing insight using data and AI, and integrating planning, risk, and performance management. Mike discussed his vision of the GFF to place finance at the heart of decision-making. This involves finance professionals not just keeping score but actively driving the agenda and contributing to key decisions so that GFF is the trusted partner of key decision-makers in government.